Curse

Hella Good · Apr 17, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I don't see how it suddenly became a PvE discussion. Sure doesn't say it in the topic...

Plus ANet are so devoted to integrity that if they could mingle PvE and PvP more they sure would. Instead of separating the two game mods, ANet have consistantly mingled them closer and closer together. Plus the issue is one and the same- the grind, or the supposed lack of it, when it comes to skill acquisition.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 17, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I don't see how it suddenly became a PvE discussion. Sure doesn't say it in the topic...

Plus ANet are so devoted to integrity that if they could mingle PvE and PvP more they sure would. Instead of separating the two game mods, ANet have consistantly mingled them closer and closer together. Plus the issue is one and the same- the grind, or the supposed lack of it, when it comes to skill acquisition.

So far, the PvE side hasn't been interfered with too much by PvP. I'm hoping that Factions, and the new town control over Elite Missions will change this and gain PvEer's some first hand experience about how much it sucks for your favorite side of the game to be bound inexplicably to the other.

These skill aquisition changes affect both sides of the game. It doesn't seem like it would affect PvE as much though, since most PvEers don't try to get all the skills on their characters unless they are getting them PvP ready. Hopefully, the different skill aquisition will break away from this all eles must be fire eles first sort of thing.

Vusak · Apr 17, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

yah elite missions is gonna screw a lot of pve'rs who cant get on the good side of the right pvp guilds.

im glad ill have some pve characters built for pvp by that stage and can farm those areas and then sell that stuff at super inflated prices to the pve crowd, despite already having a fairly filled up bank acct from early sigil sales.

its funny enough now that people who want to play fow and uw complain that they have to pvp to get access.

now they are gonna miss out on a lot of end game content coz they wont pvp.

haha

its hilarious that pvp'rs complain that they cant enjoy their focus of the game because they have to unlock, and then the pve'rs say stop whining.

how the tables turn i spose.

ducktape · Apr 17, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I don't see how it suddenly became a PvE discussion. Sure doesn't say it in the topic...

Plus ANet are so devoted to integrity that if they could mingle PvE and PvP more they sure would. Instead of separating the two game mods, ANet have consistantly mingled them closer and closer together. Plus the issue is one and the same- the grind, or the supposed lack of it, when it comes to skill acquisition.

Ok, sorry, since the Q&A posted from the interview with ANet was talking about Quests that give Skills as a reward, and purchasing skills from Skill Trainers, since PVP does not have quests and skill trainers and skill points I assumed people would devise that the skill acquisition changes are for PVE players. It was a PVE discussion for like the first six pages until it got all jumbled with the PVP discussions thrown in here. Not that either PVP or PVE is the best, just that they are so different that it makes it difficult to adequately discuss either one when they are thrown together in a conversation.

I see that many PVP people also play PVE characters just to get skills faster, since they are unhappy about the speed of the PVP unlocking system. So if you guys are pissed that they are changing the PVE skill acquisition in a way that will take you more time to get skills on your PVE characters, which are your skill mules, it's still really a PVE-related issue at hand. The fact that some PVP players also make PVE characters for the sole purpose of faster skill unlocks is related to the issue of the PVP unlock system being slow/broken/retarded etc. PVP players should not have to play PVE if they don't want to. If they changed the PVP unlock system to UAS or 5x faster unlocks and negated the need to make PVE characters to get skills, would PVP-only players give a damn about how anything works on the PVE side? I'm betting no. Maybe ANet's responses so far make it sound suckier than it will be - who knows, the new PVE skill acquisition system might be awesome. Is that going to make PVP players happy? Not really, when they still want their unlocking system to be changed. So what you really want is "Fix PVP unlocks so we can play PVP only and not grind for hundreds of hours" and it needs a separate thread. Nothing personal to anyone, it just works out better for both topics to organize the discussions separately.

And yes, linking PVP and PVE in regards to accessing an area (Elite Missions, FOW, UW) is retarded. All that it does is piss people off. It's nice that they have given alternate high-level areas, but they'll never hear the end of the complaining until they unlink PVP and PVE, and from reading Gaile's recent chatlog they are apparently trying to do just that. Just as no PVP player should have to play PVE if they don't want to, PVE players should not have to play PVP if they don't want to. They are completely different game types and most people are likely to only like one and not the other. Unlinking PVP and PVE = happier customers on both sides.

Mordakai · Apr 17, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

These skill aquisition changes affect both sides of the game. It doesn't seem like it would affect PvE as much though, since most PvEers don't try to get all the skills on their characters unless they are getting them PvP ready. Hopefully, the different skill aquisition will break away from this all eles must be fire eles first sort of thing.

Changing free skill from quests to earning money and skill points from quests will only effect PvE players. It will still be easier to buy skills than it is to farm faction, right?

I think your last point is what Anet is hoping what will happen, although honestly I see people using the same "most popular" skills anyway, because they'll want to save money.

The fact is, skills are popular (mostly) because they work. A skill that doesn't work will not be popular, whether the skill is "free" or has to be bought.

It will be interesting to see whether early access to a skill will change it's popularity, however.

Dove_Song · Apr 18, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

[QUOTE=Weezer_Blue] not for an RPG which have never been competitive until now.
QUOTE]

Lineage 2

Full open Player killing at any time....

Castle sieges that involve a hundered players. etc etc.

Guild wars is a great game...but it is hardly the "First" to do anything. It is a combonation of most games before it. In fact I can't think of any feature in the game that I have not seen in another MMO some place.

That being said they put the game together in a wonderful way.

Dove_Song · Apr 18, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

[QUOTE=Dove_Song]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

not for an RPG which have never been competitive until now.

Lineage 2

Full open Player killing at any time....

Castle sieges that involve a hundered players. etc etc.

Guild wars is a great game...but it is hardly the "First" to do anything. It is a combonation of most games before it. In fact I can't think of any feature in the game that I have not seen in another MMO some place.

That being said they put the game together in a wonderful way.

salaboB · Apr 18, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dove_Song

Lineage 2

Full open Player killing at any time....

Castle sieges that involve a hundered players. etc etc.

PvP alone doesn't make a game competitive. It has to be designed with PvP balance as one of the primary goals, and game types designed for people to be able to judge how skilled they are vs. other people.

That castle siege you described is a horrible example of a competitive mode, as there'd be no way to tell how good any individual involved was.

Edit: BTW, you might want to be sure you hit the edit button instead of the quote button, when you want to edit your post. It works better.

MSecorsky · Apr 18, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

[QUOTE=Dove_Song]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dove_Song

Lineage 2

Full open Player killing at any time....

Ah, one of the beauties of GW, the absence of this.

Thallandor · Apr 19, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

In the second part of the interview of VGM with Jeff strain, he mentioned that Ascended GWP characters will enter into Canthan at approximately end of 1/5 of the story line and will have access to skill quest as per normal to gain new Factions skills.

Mordakai · Apr 19, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

In the second part of the interview of VGM with Jeff strain, he mentioned that Ascended GWP characters will enter into Canthan at approximately end of 1/5 of the story line and will have access to skill quest as per normal to gain new Factions skills.

That contradicts Gaile, who says there will be less skill quests, and more quests for gold and skill points to compensate.

I doubt there will be skill quests in the last 1/5 of the game.

DISCLAIMER: All conjecture based on reading chat logs.

forever · Apr 19, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I don't think it's contradictary. What Jeff said probably just meant the skill point quests. And it's not that GWP characteres only play the last 1/5 of the game, they enter Cantha at 1/5 of the story line, which means they can play the rest 4/5 of the whole content, so there will be plenty of skill quests or skill point quests to do. I think what Anet wants to do is to let the majority of skills available as early as possible and let the players choose what skill they want to buy and use, thus create more variety. So they reduced or eliminated skill quests which give specific skills to each profession, instead they will give more skill point quests, with the skill point reward, players can easily choose and buy whatever skills they want.

Loviatar · Apr 19, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by forever

they enter Cantha at 1/5 of the story line, which means they can play the rest 4/5 of the whole content,.

and that fits EXACTLY with what Alex Weekes of NCSoft said months ago that 80 % of the Factions chapter was level 20 content

Mordakai · Apr 19, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Ahh, that sounds much better. I misread the "end of 1/5" bit.

BTW, for those stressing about the costs of skills for your new character:

Buying your first 19 skills fresh will cost 5,550 gold total. After that, each skill costs 1,000. (if my math is correct, based on Guild wiki)

Haggard · Apr 19, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

From what I understand, Anet wants to cut down on "cookie cutter" builds by making skills harder to acquire.

All that's going to do, though, is discourage the use of new skills, because they are harder to acquire. People will post where the best skills are to be found, and that's the only skills people will get.

IMO, this "solution" will totally backfire, and it seems like a big step back from "skill, not grind."

/Total agreement

Mordakai · Apr 19, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

/Total agreement

Ack. That quote was "pre-Gaile". I have since changed my mind, and am now actually looking forward to buying the skills I want instead of getting useless free ones. I believe this will actually end up being the same "grind", or possibly even less...

I guess I should go back an edit my earlier posts...

gilgameshx · May 01, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Why can't they make it cheaper? Maybe 500g would do at least. I really hate having to farm, salving materials, selling the materials, then repeat.

Why the hell are we forced to farm to get money?

lg5000 · May 01, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

They did make it cheaper, they capped it at 1k

yslee · May 01, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Bringing this back up; looks like the gold rewards are nowhere near what some of us were expecting. In general the average reward is about a few hundred gold. Commendations help to alleviate the need for gold a bit, but I'm wondering if they can have done more to help with skill acquisation.

Thallandor · May 01, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

unless someone found skill quest that our Tyria ascended toons can do to gains skills in Cantha, we have been lied to by Jeff Strain who said other wise in his second interview with VGM:

http://www.vgmfusion.com/get.php?web..._Daily_E47.mp3

Q9. Will ascended Guild Wars characters who travel to Cantha need to buy every Faction only skill with skill points and gold? Or will quests allow players to gain the skills? (Time: 12.36 on the interview)

And as expected new players who started playing their new characters have already been reported to have gimp themselves by buying skills they dont really need and finding it hard to afford skills and armour after.

Edit for the added insult.